Driveline Shudder when wheelspinning. What is it and how to fix??

[muggo05]

Hey guys,

Since owning my Octavia, i have noticed that there is a bone-jarring driveline shudder when the car wheelspins. Happens to me with ESP on, doing a wet hillstart sometimes, and when joining a main road and accelerating hard in the dry. (the hill start is just me getting used to the DSG still.)

Does anybody know what it is and how to get rid of it? i am about to get the car Bluefinned and am worried about what the extra power might do in these situations.

can anybody enlighten me?

[WhO]

Sounds like axle tramp and its definitely not good for anything especially the drivetrain components!

Dont quote me on it but my take on how its caused is (or a factor in causing it) as the torque when accelerating hard causes the motor and suspension components to twist up and load up against their bushings then if traction is lost it allows them to 'snap' back, this is then accompanied by a recovery of grip which again twists the motor etc up agains their bushings which then accompanied by another loss of traction allows it to snap back again, and the cycle thus repeats. It's certainly not good as you can imagine the impact forces / shock forces do no good for anything in the drivetrain.

It believe it can also be caused when the wheel starts to hop as it grips and looses traction under hard acceleration with the same negative twisting and and shock forces being transmitted through the drivetrain

There are a few ways to help reduce it, the first being putting in a torque arm insert. This will help prevent the motor from being able to snap back and forth when the wheel looses traction which certainly helps to cause axle tramp (i'm assuming the octavia is similar to the golf's in the way the motor is held in)

I've also found it more evident when ESP is turned on as when the computer tries to keep traction by grabbing the brakes it seems to help induce wheel hop / axle tramp.

Tyre choice seems to affect axle tamp too but its always been hit and miss for me with whether i'd get it or not.

Really best thing to do is research if you can get a torque arm insert as that should help out greatly!

[SKODA vRS147]

I have friends who turn off the ESP as soon as they get in the car to help reduce this issue.
Personally i leave it alone, as my reaction time is getting slower by the year (happens to us all eventually) and would not be quick enough with it off if i got into trouble.

The answer provided by Wh0 sounds like a good explaination of why it would happen.
I will wait for K1W1's view on the issue.........

[noone]

How many k's on the vehicle?

Can be more noticeable with worn bushes, old shocks.

A rear sway can help, but may not if the symptom is due to one of the above.

[gareth_oau]

it does sound like axle tramp - talk to a suspension specialist who can tune it out

[brad]

Axle tramp. Seems to be worse on mine when ESP cuts in. I think it's because of the relatively soft shocks & springs, grippy tyres and a right foot modulation problem.

Very hit & miss. Sometimes I can do a quick start & it's smooth, others the front end just goes silly.

[K1W1]

I will wait for K1W1's view on the issue.........

The OP must be real hard on the go pedal it's never happened in my car but I guess I drive more for the road conditions rather than just flooring the pedal.
It could be axle tramp as described or it could be the traction control if one axle has less traction than the other. Either way the only real fix is to drive with a little more care for the vehicle but that probably isn't the answer that is being sort.

[muggo05]

Well your half right and wrong K1W1!!

The wet hillstarts and just me still getting used to the DSG gearbox and the HSA (my first DSG obviously).
The occurence in the dry is when i am heading to work in the morning and need to join a main road in traffic. so quite often the gap is only small, hence the heavy foot!

it is an 09 Octavia with 40,000kms on it. someone on Briskoda recommended a whiteline anti-lift kit. which after reading about it seems to be on the right track.

The concern comes when I come to install the Bluefin. It will obviously be more prevalent with the increased power and torque. Just looking to know if there is some sort of suspension fix (like the anti-lift kit) or something along those lines (bushes, sway bar, shocks etc)

there must be a way to dial it out somewhere.

[spellbound]

K1W1 is correct lay off the gas pedal , had the same problem when i first got the RS , after the liberty , the wonder of awd .

Nothing else , even the anti lift wont stop it completely , i have APR stage one , and it would be even worse if i went mental taking off from a corner .

[Damo105]

My RS does it too. And not just when I'm very heavy footed. With the conti's it seems to break traction quite easily in wet or greasy conditions, or under certain conditions in the dry. When it does break traction I nearly always get the axle tramping. My previous car (Peugeot 207GT) also did it, so I just assumed it's a common trait in front wheel drive cars?

[Gnat]

My RS does it too. And not just when I'm very heavy footed. With the conti's it seems to break traction quite easily in wet or greasy conditions, or under certain conditions in the dry. When it does break traction I nearly always get the axle tramping. My previous car (Peugeot 207GT) also did it, so I just assumed it's a common trait in front wheel drive cars?

Exactly the same, bad axle tramp. I assumed everyone suffered the same.
50% of the time it'll just spins, 50% its spins and tramps. Probably road surface the difference.
Which is the #2 reason why I want more grip, per my other thread here about the Conti's and getting new rubber.

[noone]

If it's become worse you prob should find out if it's the shocks, specific worn bushes or just the soft design.

New parts may not fix symptoms of other worn parts.

Have a look under the car for play when you move the wheel (when jacked up).

[woofy]

I used to get it when we lived on a hill and I had to turn right even in our Mazda 323 Sp20, changing to Yoko c.drives stopped it a lot. I'd also see it in our Mazda 6 going around a certain corner, in all cases it was due to me flooring it, you just learn to back off. Crap tyres do make it worse though.

Never seen it in the Skoda...or if I did, it must have been a long time ago...the PE2s hold on pretty well, but I'm also sure the ESP is actually stopping it rather than causing it.

[kaanage]

The sure fire cure is to change the resonant frequency of the front suspension so that the tramp frequency is higher than this. Basically, you need either lighter spring rate or heavier damping.

As noone has stated, worn bushings and dampers will make tramp more likely as it raises the resonant frequency.

[Antiplastix]

Mines done it from new, so I wouldn t be to concerned with worn suspension parts yet, and yes it is worse once chipped, live with it or dont put the boot in until you have full traction.