Fabia only 4 star rating in EuroNCAP!!!

[Corey_R]

My point wasn't that linters will see the difference between Fabia and Roomster, it was that the Roomster got 5 stars and that if they tested the Fabia with the same airbags it would get 5 stars too.

Except that you're simply incorrect.
Both the Fabia 2007 EuroNCAP Test and Skoda 2006 EuroNCAP Test were conducted with the same airbags. The Fabia is just a 4 star car, and Roomster a 5 star.

Rather than spending multiple pages trying to argue a point based around speculation, why not just read the tests and understand why first?

[VAG newbie]

Has anyone actually decided to look at the Euro NCAP Page for the 2007 Fabia crash test?

It clearly states that the car was equipped with the Front seatbelt pretensioners, Front seatbelt load limiters, Driver frontal airbag, Front passenger frontal airbag, Side body airbags, Side head airbags. The only airbag it doesn't have is the Driver knee airbag.

There is also this comment:


You can also see the break-down of the scoring.
This is definitely a 4 star car on the pre-2009 tests, and that's WITH the 6 air bags.
It's quite possible that on the current tests, or soon to be released 2012 crash test scheme, that the Fabia is a 3 star car.


As for ANCAP, I generally don't care about their testing unless it's for a car that Euro NCAP haven't tested. For one, much of their database is from the old EuroNCAP tests anyway, but two, their test requirements and methodologies lag behind Europe, and even the American NTHSA.

That's bad!! I was in the hope that Aussie spec with 6 airbags will be 5 stars. If that's the case, with a RRP of $18990, Fabia will be a flop and may terminate the presence o Skoda here!

Even Jazz and Mazda 2 scored 5 stars in EuroNCAP. I think I'll persuade my parents to go for a Polo then, only $500 more, you get more equipment, more safety and a proper VW, ie, better resale. Very disappointed....

[Jake02]

Except that you're simply incorrect.
Both the Fabia 2007 EuroNCAP Test and Skoda 2006 EuroNCAP Test were conducted with the same airbags. The Fabia is just a 4 star car, and Roomster a 5 star.

Rather than spending multiple pages trying to argue a point based around speculation, why not just read the tests and understand why first?

My bad, I assumed they tested the basic model like they did the Octavia. No need to be a total d**k in return however. You've made your point, no need to take it too far.

[Corey_R]

I think that things like air-bags give people an overly simplistic view of car safety.
The issue with the Fabia really has nothing to do with airbags. The issue is that something (structural? chassis? engine being pushed back?) causes the dash and dash components to come down onto the driver and front passenger.


But don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the Fabia's issues can't be fixed, just that it's got nothing to do with the number of airbags used in the test.


I am not really read up on the Skoda range. I thought that the Fabia was based on the Polo, so when I heard the Fabia was coming to Australia, I thought it was a new car based on the new 6R Polo platform. Obviously that's not the case, but I don't know how much of my thoughts are wrong and correct etc.
But since the solution has nothing to do with airbags, but more with structure/chassis/engine etc, it's quite possible that the issue could be resolved within a "Facelift" change if one of those is about or has recently occured. We're not engineers, so for all we know, the problem is with the engine mount design not correctly pushing the engine down under the car when a frontal impact occurs. If that was hypothetically the case in the 2007 crash test, the engine would hit the firewall, which would push the dash etc. So if Skoda fix that (or whatever is really the cause) during a facelift refresh, they can submit the car to be tested under the current EuroNCAP standards. Though, one would think that if they had resolved the issue, they would have done that already (or maybe they have and it's currently in progress? who knows).


Btw, even though ANCAP is now using outdated crash test methodologies, they will still take results from the EuroNCAP tests. It's just that when they "add up the points" to determine the "star rating", they base the points on the current ANCAP methodology. Therefore, a car can be tested once in Europe, and receive a 4 star rating on the EuroNCAP test, but be scored as a 5 star car in the ANCAP results. There are various examples of this already on the ANCAP site, notably within the VAG family is the VW Amarok - 4 star EuroNCAP, 5 star ANCAP, both results from the same test crash

[pologti18t]

I If that was hypothetically the case in the 2007 crash test, the engine would hit the firewall, which would push the dash etc. So if Skoda fix that (or whatever is really the cause) during a facelift refresh, they can submit the car to be tested under the current EuroNCAP standards. Though, one would think that if they had resolved the issue, they would have done that already (or maybe they have and it's currently in progress? who knows).

There has been a facelift since the 2007 test... so who knows what it would score now.
Remember the 2 1/2 star Barina? .... after some tweaks (by Australian engineers) during a facelift it became a 4 star car.

And as the report stated the car lost points for insufficient or confusing labelling of passenger airbag disable and rear isofix.
The actual crash score isn't too bad... especially the side pole test

[Corey_R]

Thanks pologti18t, as I said, I'm not up on the Skoda series, so I'm not aware about the facelifts etc.

But as I said, if Skoda has resolved the issues, they are able to resubmit the car.

Btw, I have read the report (hence why I was having a go at those who haven't), but the insufficient or confusing labelling points lost are related to the 3 star child rating, and not the 4 star adult rating. Re-evaluation of those can be done without a new crash test, so if fixing those were enough to bring up the overall score, then Skoda would have to be pretty lazy/stupid to not have just resubmitted the car for re-evaluation of those points.

But I guess time will tell if they submit a new car for full crash testing to resolve the 4 star adult issues...

[K1W1]

Thanks pologti18t, as I said, I'm not up on the Skoda series, so I'm not aware about the facelifts etc.

I think post 2007 model facelifts have been purely cosmetic. I doubt whether there will be any change in the NCAP rating. If there was surely Skoda would have had the car retested.

[pologti18t]

I think post 2007 model facelifts have been purely cosmetic. I doubt whether there will be any change in the NCAP rating. If there was surely Skoda would have had the car retested.

Whats the procedure with NCAP? Do NCAP request to test a car or do manufacturers offer them for testing?
And what are the retest rules?

IN 2007 - 4 stars was quite sufficient in the small car world. Not so now.

Would I be worried about the Fabia if I purchased one? Hmmmm probably not as it does well enough in frontal collisions and does well in the side impact (the accidents that scramble your brain forever). It gets the same rating in the regard as a new Fiesta

[Corey_R]

Manufacturers offer the vehicles for test.

[K1W1]

Whats the procedure with NCAP? Do NCAP request to test a car or do manufacturers offer them for testing?
And what are the retest rules?

As I understand things testing is not compulsory but vehicles can either be submitted by manufacturers or NCAP can test of their own volition. I guess the thing that is in play here is consumer demand and peer pressure. Imagine the sales for any manufacturer of volume sales who refused to have their cars tested.

IN 2007 - 4 stars was quite sufficient in the small car world. Not so now.

Other than it being the 40th anniversary of the Summer of Love in San Francisco can you remember anything that happened in 2007?

Would I be worried about the Fabia if I purchased one?

From a safety point of view I probably wouldn't be overly concerned either but at $22,400 drive away in Vic for the base model it compares pretty badly with a lot of cars that are less expensive AND have more features PLUS a 5 star rating.
The Fabia does not have the cache of a Mini or a Polo or an A1 or even the French equivalents so it's not going to appeal to the people who are more interested in a brand or performance it's in the neither region between the price end of the market and the brand name/performance end.

[VAG newbie]

From a safety point of view I probably wouldn't be overly concerned either but at $22,400 drive away in Vic for the base model it compares pretty badly with a lot of cars that are less expensive AND have more features PLUS a 5 star rating.
The Fabia does not have the cache of a Mini or a Polo or an A1 or even the French equivalents so it's not going to appeal to the people who are more interested in a brand or performance it's in the neither region between the price end of the market and the brand name/performance end.

Well said! We can all speculate here that with the face lift, Skoda has fix the problem, or with 6SRS it will be 5 star...etc, the fact is, it only has 4 star at the moment! Most average Aussies will not bother to read the full report, even if they do, it clearly had some short-comings with it's safety, albeit it was the pre-facelifted model. At that price premium, Skoda doesn't have the image of the premium Euro brand, it doesn't have the safety that are usually associated with Euro cars. It will be really hard for Skoda to convince anyone to buy it.

I'm a huge Skoda fan, and I was really looking forward to Fabia. But even for me now, I would think twice before I'll commit. Just let me ask all of you a simple question, at over $22000 ORC, how many of you will part your cash to get the Fabia, when there are many options out there that cheaper and safer (ie, Japanese rivals)? Or roughly same price range but arguably better? (ie Polo)

I hope Matt Weisner is following up this forum and decide to send a Fabia for ANCAP crash testing. I don't care ANCAP uses old methodology, as long as it gets a 5 star with ANCAP, it will win a lot more sales! Maybe I'll write to him personally!

[Corey_R]

Well... it would make no sense to send it to ANCAP...
They'd send it to Euro NCAP, who would then send the data to ANCAP.

[K1W1]

I'm a huge Skoda fan, and I was really looking forward to Fabia. But even for me now, I would think twice before I'll commit. Just let me ask all of you a simple question, at over $22000 ORC, how many of you will part your cash to get the Fabia, when there are many options out there that cheaper and safer (ie, Japanese rivals)?

I picked up a Suzuki Swift GL yesterday that will ultimately be my Daughters car when she gets her licence in 6 weeks or so.

1.4L petrol engine
5 speed manual
PS
AC
ABS
EBD
Electric windows
Electric mirrors
Metallic paint
Blinker repeaters in the door mirrors
Trip computer. instant kpl, distance to empty, outside temp display
USB / iPod connectivity with title display on the radio. Standard USB cable no $100 MDI cable required.
Steering wheel audio controls
7 air bags
5 Star NCAP rating
3 year unlimited warranty / 2 years extra from the dealer
$400 worth of service vouchers (three vouchers)
$17400.00 drive away.

Makes a Fabia hard to justify.

[woofy]

I think everyone will wish you were their Dad....I bought a 12 yr old Ford twin carb Meteor when I was 17 myself, spent the next year paying it off and then fixing bits on it. I needed it to go to Uni and work so had no choice as we lived 30min drive from anywhere. I had it for 7 yrs and still wonder how I coped without A/C in QLD these days....

My youngest cousin in that side of the family started uni this year about 30min away so her parents pay for her to have a on campus room, and also gave her their 6 yr old top spec 525.....what a change in 16 yrs. She actually lived in town unlike me (same town/city) so didn't need to do either. She has never had to work a day in her life and probably never will, same deal with her younger brother..

[K1W1]

I started with an $800 1966 Morris J4 van.

The way I look at it you seem to pay $2000-$5000 for some high mileage heap of junk with an indeterminate history and no warranty or $10,000-$12,000 for some half reasonable car at a dealer. This car will last her through her P's, allow my son to learn to drive on his Ls starting this time next year and get him onto his Ps, it's also suitable for parking at the station (swmbo won't leave the S3 there) so it will cut the miles on the Audi down and in 4 or 5 years time it shouldn't take more than about 10 minutes to sell a one owner 100,000km Red Swift in reasonable condition and I won't have had any phone calls in the middle of the night telling me "the car broke down again".