New member ... from VR6 to 118TSi hatch

[aaardvaark]

Hi All,

I've been reading these forums for months while trying to decide what to buy. Finally was convinced by what I read here that the 118 engine and DSG are fixed and not likely to fall apart. For sure the car is a beautiful, beautiful drive!

I've been in love with my VR6 since 1995 which is why I haven't replaced it Now after fixing a couple of window regulators at great expense it's developed a water leak somewhere inside the cabin, so time to be replaced. I'm so looking forward to getting my white 118, can't wait for the remaining couple of weeks. I think I'll be happy with a bland non-GTi non-R non-3.6 vehicle even though everyone else seems to own a go-fast. The 118 is almost as quick as my old car and a new world in comfort and features. The only thing I'm really disappointed about is the range of colours available, or actually, not available. I'd decided to get the blue that is still available on the wagon until getting told I had a choice of white, black or a couple of metallic shades in between. Aaaagh.

Disappointed too to discover on joining the other day that I can't advertise my VR6 for sale for three months

But looking forward to sharing the new car here!

[Ryan_R]

Welcome and congrats. Do you have any mods planned? A stage one software upgrade unlocks the supercharger and makes it roughly as quick as a GTI (slightly less kW, considerably more torque), makes it a hoot to drive.

[aaardvaark]

Thanks Ryan. To be honest I can't quite wrap my head around remaps /software re-tunes. Maybe you can point me to somewhere where my concerns are addressed? The problem I have is that if it is possible to remap the ecu for more power and/or greater fuel economy, why does't the manufacturer do that in the first place? Manufacturers have far more at stake and far greater r&d budgets than the software upgraders, and they must choose the tune state for a good reason. Putting it the other way, there must be negative consequences of such a tune. Either reliability, fuel consumption, or some other reason for not doing it. There's no way they wouldn't use a different tune if it gave better consumption figures without cost. Or more power, without cost. So what is being traded off?

In the particular case of the 118, isn't the 7-speed DSG only rated to 250NM torque? The 118 produces 240nm and you can see that it is 'artificially' limited by the ecu map if you look at the torque curve from the factory map - it goes up from low revs, hits 240nm then stays flat (artificially regulated) until much higher up the range when it starts falling again. (Can't find it now but I noticed this somewhere recently). So how does the re-map from a stage one upgrade increase torque without exceeding the DSG's limit? Also, what is the warranty situation with re-maps in general?

I haven't bought a new car since 1995 so have never had a re-map option before. I'd love to be convinced that it's a good idea because I'd upgrade in an instant, so would be very happy if you can point me to something that answers the above questions! Have you noticed a very obvious change with the upgrade? Fuel consumption? (I know there's other threads on this, but I haven't seen anything that answers my questions yet).

PS actually the only mod I've thought of so far has been (laugh if you want) some stripes or coloured decoration of some kind to relieve the plain unexciting white look! I just want a bit of colour so I can find my car in carparks amongst all the other plain white cars.

[Ryan_R]

All of your concerns have been asked and answered before here (would take me a while to find so I'll invite you to search the Mk6Golf and Tuning subforums).

kW goes up from 118 to 151 (or ~168bhp to 203bhp).
Torque from 240nm to 320nm (APR).
0-100kph from 8.0 seconds to about 6.8 seconds
Avg Fuel remains around 6.9l/100km at my slightly faster than average driving style.
DSG hesitancy when moving from standstill is reduced.


Because there is more torque you don't have to rev as much or shift down for the same amount of speed/acceleration, hence the potential fuel savings.

DSG7 is "rated" for 240nm but not constrained to it, similar to how the DSG6 is rated for slightly more power than the Golf R has, yet they mod their cars far more than a simple software remap (exhausts, intakes, etc). I've had my remap since the end of 2010 and it's been great.

Also remember that Stage 1 requires 98ron fuel whereas stock allows the use of 95-ron as well. Not everyone has easy access to 98-ron which is one reason why VW wouldn't tune the car as fast as possible. Fortunately APR Stage 1 can easily be turned on/off before starting
the car via the cruise-control stick.

Hope this helps.

[aaardvaark]

Thanks especially for the info on your experience and polite way of putting 'go and read the forums'. (and the (now-obvious) explanation of the real use of the APR on/off switch). I spent most of a day reading the forums last weekend but not really found answers to my questions, especially the warranty. It seems to be a low risk, but in summary no matter whether you get a warranty from the tune provider or not, it seems you're still taking most of the risk with drivetain problems yourself. My dealer said they wouldn't warranty engine and drivetrain if remapped, full stop, but that might not be entirely true from reading some opinions.

Anyway. back to my reading... I'm now trying to determine if a flash upgrade also affects the dsg decision-making (when to shift up etc) since in my test drive I found like others 'D' to be too eager to change up and for me, 'S' to hang on longer than I'd want for normal driving. I'd like a compromise and wondering if remaps affect this behaviour (other than secondarily to torque changes). Other than that I'm in the same boat as everybody else, keen to get at least a Stage 1, but still unsure about risks and warranty.

[Ryan_R]

Hehe, the only time I've used the off switch is when dropping the car off to get serviced or if the car is to be driven by some other workshop people. Just to be safer than sorry and not provide an excuse for them to thrash the car.

VW would have to prove that any drivetrain problem was caused by a modification to refuse your claim. APR doesn't stop the gear changes going up early, but with the extra torque you don't always have to downshift (as much or at all) for the requested speed boost. A SprintBooster pedal adapter also helps here as the car will respond to extra acceleration significantly quicker, and this also removes the lag/hesitancy when taking off.

That said, I still manual mode most of the time except for stop/start peak hour. I purchased a GTI wheel (without the GTI badge) which has flappy paddles and use those. I then had to get the metallic GTI pedals to match... so you could say I own a poor man's GTI (just without the extra fuel use and inconspicuous styling)

[THE_EGG]

Hehe, the only time I've used the off switch is when dropping the car off to get serviced or if the car is to be driven by some other workshop people. Just to be safer than sorry and not provide an excuse for them to thrash the car.

VW would have to prove that any drivetrain problem was caused by a modification to refuse your claim. APR doesn't stop the gear changes going up early, but with the extra torque you don't always have to downshift (as much or at all) for the requested speed boost. A SprintBooster pedal adapter also helps here as the car will respond to extra acceleration significantly quicker, and this also removes the lag/hesitancy when taking off.

That said, I still manual mode most of the time except for stop/start peak hour. I purchased a GTI wheel (without the GTI badge) which has flappy paddles and use those. I then had to get the metallic GTI pedals to match... so you could say I own a poor man's GTI (just without the extra fuel use and inconspicuous styling)

That's the way, keeping it stealthy. Out of curiousity, would the sprintbooster work with a tune ( like from Viezu)?

BTW
aaardvaark, hope you enjoy the new ride

[Ryan_R]

Indeed they work very well together.

If you intend to try out APR + SprintBooster (in Race mode) + Sport mode (DSG) for the first time be sure to bring some extra pants

I use the 'Sport mode' (Sprint Booster setting) for daily driving. With Race mode you only need to flex your toes a bit and the car wants to shift down and race away, yet unbelievably it's still controllable driving slowly (i.e. multi-story car park in the city). If going for a drive in the mountains for fun I won't use Race mode since I'm using lower gears more often and want a bit more modulation/control of the pedal for smoother corner exists, etc. Nothing livens up a dreary freeway drive to/from work like using Race mode though. Instant vroom (no turbo lag). Supercharger sounds much better with APR but it's still quiet (you won't be impressing my mate who has supercharged his Holden GTS 320).

Hope that helps