Lakeside Laps V18 - 4 August 2013

[An7on]

Any views on the Remsa pads?

[seangti]

Yup, running remsa's on all corners of mine. This is the second set on the front. They meet my needs, for a sports pad they are great, as a track pad (which they aren't), I still find them good/sufficient. I.e. I'm happy with the compromise.

[DonJuan]

Ok I'm not looking for an argument or a debate but... You're wrong.

Below is an extract from the brake pad manufacturer you are promoting:
When the temperature at the interface between the pad and the disc exceeds the thermal capacity of the pad, the pad loses friction capability mainly due to out-gassing of binder (matrix) materials in the pad compound. The brake pedal remains firm and solid but the car will not stop no matter how hard you push on the pedal. The first indication is a distinctive smell, a signal to back off. Solutions: better cooling, higher mass brake discs size and vane configuration or higher heat range pad compound.

There is a reason all serious brakes have slots/dimples/cross-drilling and it's not for looks.
It also helps remove any pad glazing and any build up of materials on the pad.

As for the squealing pad issue, in my race car there is no squeal, ever, unless you get them above 800c and even then it is only minor.
In fact all the "street pads" I've had, have squealed from the moment they have been subjected to any spirited driving and have continued to squeal for the life of the pad.

I'm not new to brakes but what I am new to is a car of considerably more weight & speed capability.
I'll continue to test different brake compounds until I find one that truly works on both street & track and share the results with all the forum members so hopefully we can all benefit from it.

When you find a pad that is good for track and doesn't squeal as a daily, please let me know!

[Club Racer]

Ok I'm not looking for an argument or a debate but... You're wrong.

Below is an extract from the brake pad manufacturer you are promoting:
When the temperature at the interface between the pad and the disc exceeds the thermal capacity of the pad, the pad loses friction capability mainly due to out-gassing of binder (matrix) materials in the pad compound. The brake pedal remains firm and solid but the car will not stop no matter how hard you push on the pedal. The first indication is a distinctive smell, a signal to back off. Solutions: better cooling, higher mass brake discs size and vane configuration or higher heat range pad compound.

There is a reason all serious brakes have slots/dimples/cross-drilling and it's not for looks.
It also helps remove any pad glazing and any build up of materials on the pad.

As for the squealing pad issue, in my race car there is no squeal, ever, unless you get them above 800c and even then it is only minor.
In fact all the "street pads" I've had, have squealed from the moment they have been subjected to any spirited driving and have continued to squeal for the life of the pad.

I'm not new to brakes but what I am new to is a car of considerably more weight & speed capability.
I'll continue to test different brake compounds until I find one that truly works on both street & track and share the results with all the forum members so hopefully we can all benefit from it.

Wow, burned by a tt driver, will I ever be able to cope. Yeah, probably.

I do like a forum reply that points out the obvious, keeps my faith in humanity alive. So the holes / grooves and slots on rotors are not just for looks, you really do know your stuff. It would be foolish of me to point out that cross drilled rotors are actually being phased out by most of the major manufacturers due to the level of stress fractures that can occur due to excessive heating cycling inflicted on a rotor that is already compromised due to the drilling. The same applies to slots but this tends to lead to a different type of failure. Dimples are not used on competition rotors, as it is a bad solution, grooves are the only way to go. Add this to a floating rotor on an aluminium bell, then you have the most effective heat dispersing, light weight solution. Unless you go carbon carbon ceramic, and no i did not repeat myself.

I was involved in the testing of rotors and compounds early on in my career, mainly on F3000 and BTCC cars but obviously nothing I can tell you will be new, as you "are not new to brakes". Strange for such a statement that you are still struggling on with EBC. They are not the pad for your car, especially with its 1450kg weight (heavy car). Pagids, or similar and AP rotors would be far better but of course you are free to waste your money on what you choose.

Back to gassing up of pads, again the original gassing problem was inherent in the late seventies and early eighties before sintered pads were introduced. A pad could go off after only a few spirited laps. A problem made worse as horse power overtook brake development for a while. Modern pads DO NOT gas up to the same extent. As for grooves de-glazing a pad, you are slightly mistaken, or just plain wrong to use your vernacular. The grooves et al primary role is to disperse heat. A pad will glaze if not bedded in correctly, irrespective of the type / style rotor used. It is all to do with the gradual increase in operating temperature before the initial factory coating has been fully "cooked". This I can prove with the finite element analysis of a fresh pad as opposed a correctly bedded in example but again, you "know brakes", so I am preaching to the converted.

So to sum up, no I was right, and you really should just take advice on face value instead of attempting one up-manship. i am looking forward to discussing this with you at the next happy laps, where you can dazzle me with your engineering knowledge.

Until then, why don't you go and choose some bacon?

[Wolfman101]

Wow, burned by a tt driver, will I ever be able to cope. Yeah, probably.

I do like a forum reply that points out the obvious, keeps my faith in humanity alive. So the holes / grooves and slots on rotors are not just for looks, you really do know your stuff. It would be foolish of me to point out that cross drilled rotors are actually being phased out by most of the major manufacturers due to the level of stress fractures that can occur due to excessive heating cycling inflicted on a rotor that is already compromised due to the drilling. The same applies to slots but this tends to lead to a different type of failure. Dimples are not used on competition rotors, as it is a bad solution, grooves are the only way to go. Add this to a floating rotor on an aluminium bell, then you have the most effective heat dispersing, light weight solution. Unless you go carbon carbon ceramic, and no i did not repeat myself.

I was involved in the testing of rotors and compounds early on in my career, mainly on F3000 and BTCC cars but obviously nothing I can tell you will be new, as you "are not new to brakes". Strange for such a statement that you are still struggling on with EBC. They are not the pad for your car, especially with its 1450kg weight (heavy car). Pagids, or similar and AP rotors would be far better but of course you are free to waste your money on what you choose.

Back to gassing up of pads, again the original gassing problem was inherent in the late seventies and early eighties before sintered pads were introduced. A pad could go off after only a few spirited laps. A problem made worse as horse power overtook brake development for a while. Modern pads DO NOT gas up to the same extent. As for grooves de-glazing a pad, you are slightly mistaken, or just plain wrong to use your vernacular. The grooves et al primary role is to disperse heat. A pad will glaze if not bedded in correctly, irrespective of the type / style rotor used. It is all to do with the gradual increase in operating temperature before the initial factory coating has been fully "cooked". This I can prove with the finite element analysis of a fresh pad as opposed a correctly bedded in example but again, you "know brakes", so I am preaching to the converted.

So to sum up, no I was right, and you really should just take advice on face value instead of attempting one up-manship. i am looking forward to discussing this with you at the next happy laps, where you can dazzle me with your engineering knowledge.

Until then, why don't you go and choose some bacon?

Can you give me a source on this?

[DonJuan]

While we're talking brake pads, anyone give me some suggestions for my VWR BBK as to which pads would be better given that 95% of the km's put on the car are as daily driving???

[THE_EGG]

soooooo Renault Happy Laps :L



ONLY EVER drive on track regardless if it is sprint or happy laps or whatever with the correct mindset. Quite a large oversight when it comes to these.

[team_v]

Alright, thread cleaned up.
Please keep the discussion to Happy Laps topics only.

Brake upgrades etc can be asked in their appropriate section (motorsport or your general forum area (mk54/5/6 golf and Polo areas etc)

[grandturismo]

Lakeside Laps V18 - 4 August 2013

It was about the comment from Egg in relation to Happy Laps. Sorry Clay, what did you think I meant.