Another Qld Dyno Day?

[GT3]

Im sorry but I fail to beleive that a car that made 215 here in Sydney , 230 odd up there in Queensland can all of a sudden make 300 kw with only race fuel and a slight retune

Hey Seb, congrats on the birth of your child, much more significant than intake temps on a dyno ..who knows, in 18 years time, your kid and one of Guy's kids will disputing figures too. ..power output would increase marginally by then .."it's not possible to get 33,000 kw atw"

[DaveMack]

Here is a more reasonable dyno chart for stage 3 kit from APR :

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3761751

So ... you're saying YOU get to pick and choose which dynos you believe and a dozen people standing watching doesn't mean anything?

Grow up, Seb!

Dave

[Bug_racer]

Im saying why is there such a difference between dyno charts from APR distributors to actual owners cars ?

Your telling me to grow up ? I think you need to study turbos and then you will see why Im getting so upset !

So ... you're saying YOU get to pick and choose which dynos you believe and a dozen people standing watching doesn't mean anything?

Grow up, Seb!

Dave

[gtimk5]

This was an openly promoted dyno get togeter and had witnesses, unlike the non witnesses on here dismissing the graph.
Nearly time to lock sanother wrecked thread... Crazy...

[DVR68U]

i think some of the points seb is raiseing are q's most ppl would ask. everone just needs to relax, it is easy to make dyno's read high or low can even be human error. and a car with intake temps over 200degress is very high, then the point of the turbo going way past its recommended efficency and still making big power. ppl will always q's results thats just how it is, dont all take it to heart if ppl didnt ask q's then where would the world be.
cheers brenton

[572]

Nearly time to lock sanother wrecked thread... Crazy...

You're not wrong! And half of the attendee's haven't even posted graphs yet!

[DVR68U]

also just because ppl are there doesnt mean they know whats going on.
but im not saying anyone cheated or whatever , it doesnt bother me who makes the most power etc. just putting in some points from a outside perspective, since im not envoled with either party.

[static1800]

It's a dyno readout guys, sure it's nice to see big numbers come up to complement hard work done to the car but at the end of the day it's numbers and a graph on a piece of paper....

Although I wasn't there, having a dozen people around at the time is pretty good evidence to the numbers being legit. This is clearly just another APR vs Giac debate that goes on every single day in this place.

If you have reasons to doubt a readout do it constructively and maybe ask for some specifics on the car not say that's a load of BS and ignoring other comments made.

Ego's need to be put in check guys....

[RhysQ]

i think some of the points seb is raiseing are q's most ppl would ask. everone just needs to relax, it is easy to make dyno's read high or low can even be human error.

thats a fair comment and definitely should be put to use but its just when you get the idiots that ruin it and jump the gun 'calling B/S' on figures without asking questions. i'm sure if civilised questions were asked before making attacks, none of this nonsense would have occurred.

If you have reasons to doubt a readout do it constructively and maybe ask for some specifics on the car not say that's a load of BS and ignoring other comments made.

just noticed this post...haha....spot on!

[graeme86]

So,

I have a question, not knowing much about dynos.

When the dyno prints out this chart, is it corrected hp?

e.g. simplisticly, say a car is producing 200kW as measured by the roller (yes, I know they don't measure hp per se) and the intake temp measured is 40 degrees, it corrects the temperature to the standard (i.e. 20 or whatever) and spits out the graph saying eg 225kW or whatever (i.e corrected horsepower which would be produced if temp was 20).

Is that how it works???

In this case, of measured intake temp of over 200 degrees, does that then distort the output figure on the graph?

Or are these graphs the raw uncorrected data?

If only a GTi had 4WD to harness this power: biggrin:

4-mo FTW

[Guy_H]

4wd would slow it down too much! - you should take it for a druive one Saturday Greame!

They have the raw uncorrected data stored in the dyno, so yes, its always available.

Best to search google for "dyno dynamics shootout mode"

Here is their speil: (its not mine - I don't really care as we use the dyno for a tuning tool, not for making up numbers)

Saying that, we have run over 30 of our own test cars on this particular dyno, and the results are always predictable & accurate - same operator every time - we will be back there this week with an interesting one too (not a VW sorry)

"Chances are, many of you from around the automotive industry have already heard of the ShootOut system when dyno tuning cars. Dyno Dynamics, the manufacturer of Australia’s leading dynamometer brand, has for many years been considered the benchmark for both accuracy and repeatability. Now, after 4 years of effort (not to mention a substantial financial investment), they have just ‘upped the stakes’ - Dyno Dynamics has developed a system that is set to become the industry standard for power comparison. The system is called ShootOut, it is being utilised by a network of accredited Dyno Dynamics equipped workshops across Australia and will soon be available to all customers worldwide.

The ShootOut mode system is not just a hardware or software upgrade – it is a standardised approach to power measurement, designed to ensure that you can take your car to any accredited workshop and get accurate power measurements for your car. The results will be the same regardless of which ShootOut mode accredited workshop you select. This also means that results from different cars, measured on different dynos can be compared much more accurately which opens a lot of insight to power readings.

ShootOut was developed by Dyno Dynamics primarily to eliminate "Operator Technique" and as a tool for measuring horsepower accurately and CONSISTENTLY for ALL Dyno Dynamics dynos with Shootout accreditation. All dynos with Shootout accreditation have been calibrated the same accross the board, and should not vary more than 1% when comparing between Dyno Dynamics dynos.

Ethical standards
All ShootOut workshops must abide by a code of practice. When a company gets its ShootOut accreditation, it is only leasing the right to use the ShootOut mode and the ShootOut logos on the dynos, which are bgasically the physical and interlectual property of Dyno Dynamics. We are bound by a contractual agreement which is renewed on a yearly basis with very strict guidelines and procedures whenever we use the ShootOut logos on printed dyno graphs. If a company does not adhere to these guidelines, and decides to employ "Operator Techniques" and manipulate the ShootOut process, Dyno Dynamics will issue the company with a warning. After 3 warnings, the company loses their ShootOut Accreditation. Dyno Dynamics expect Dyno Operators to be honest and follow the required procedures in accordance with the ShootOut Agreement between the operator and Dyno Dynamics.

Proof of integrity
1. All ShootOut graph runs must be supervised by an accredited ShootOut scrutineer.
2. When the Shootineer is confident that the run has been performed to Dyno Dynamics’ ShootOut standards, the approved ShootOut logo will be added to the graph.
3. Test conditions and other data is printed on the lower edge of the graph as further evidence of accuracy.
4. When the graph is printed, the Shootineer will apply the official ShootOut stamp and personally sign it.
5. As final proof, the customer is provided with a checklist to verify that all steps in vehicle preparation for the test have been carried out correctly.

Whether you are planning on attending a ‘head to head’ dyno day, or want your vehicle tested to verify the effects of a performance enhancement – A Dyno Dynamics ShootOut accredited workshop will determine the figures accurately, time after time, regardless of location."

[Eddy]

Hoyhoy.

Coooooooooooooooool, Guy...
Me love the 300KW figure.

Hooroo.

[graeme86]

Sorry, still unclear as to whether the graph is generated using the measured data printed at the bottom.

Found this little calculator:

http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_cf.htm

e.g. using sample figures given for pressure but only changing temperature (just to see what effect it has on the formula), I have come up with this:

Sample Absolute Pressure 24.71
Sample Vapor Pressure 0.121

Air temp 104F = correction factor = 1.258
Air temp 300F = correction factor 1.489

% Difference ~ 18%

As I said, purely a sample to show the effect of using an erroneous temp reading.

So, if the dyno uses the intake temp as measured and corrects horsepower figure and spits out graph, then the power figure would show 18% higher on the graph than actual. (***sample only-no inference applied to anyones actual dyno charts***)

Am I missing something here?

i.e. is the graph calculated using ambient temp or intake temp?

As I said, I don't know.

Can someone please elucidate.

[static1800]

Graeme, see this thread it has some clarity on the things you mentioned.

[Guy_H]

Graeme,

You need to pop around to the dyno & talk to Paul who runs it, he will explain it all for you - he also has all the raw data for you to see. (They are only at Coorparoo)

Whilst you are there, put your R32 on the dyno (about 2 minutes to disconnect the Haldex) - then you will have your own set of numbers to work on!

The dyno day we did earlier in the year (all polo's) Paul took the time to explain to the entire group all the settings, the factors & how shoot out mode works, how tyre pressure & tie down tension all effect the figures.